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Friday, October 29, 2010

T Lo Interviews: Mondo Guerra

“I’ve always been 100 percent Mondo.”



So nice to finally talk to the “star” of Project Runway!

Oh, well. Thank you. I don’t know about that.

We do. We’re at 2500 comments and counting and most of them are in support of you.

Oh, wow. You know the thing about it is I haven’t even looked at the web this morning, because, well… I don’t want to relive it, you know.

Trust us, the response has been overwhelming. Who did you watch the episode with last night? Your family?

I watched the episode with my family and 556 of my closest friends. It was amazing. It was packed.

This is such a cliché to ask, but were you disappointed with the outcome?

You know what? I wasn’t disappointed. More than anything, I was a little shocked because I thought that I got the better critique. The way it happened in real time on the runway that day it felt like my critique was the strongest critique. But I’m not disappointed because you know, I went there to do something and I went there to do work and to show my creativity to the world. And people responded to me not only as an artistic person but as an individual. It really exceeded all my expectations. I mean, I am so grateful for the opportunity and I wouldn’t change a thing.

Were you surprised by the viewer response? Because you pretty much became the fan favorite.


You know what? It’s funny; I was surprised by that because I would never think that I would have that kind of impact on anybody, let alone a large audience. I’ve always been 100 percent Mondo and I’ve always been…kind of a bit of a misunderstood character. And I think when I got on the show, people related to me in the fact that they recognized that I was on a personal journey and that’s amazing.

Be honest. Did you think you had it in the bag?


No…you know, the thing about it is, anything can happen. The only thing I could do was go there and do my best, and I did; it was my dream collection, and I showed exactly what I wanted. I’m very happy with what I’ve accomplished.

Wouldn’t do anything differently?


No, I wouldn’t have done anything differently and I think that the judges kind of thought, you know, maybe I could be some kind of snob because I didn’t listen to them and take off the pukey, cupcake head pieces or put in a solid color dress, you know? I could have done that very easily. But you know what, I said it was my dream collection and I never really go back on my ideas. Personally, when I do that, that’s when I get weak. I think when I’m self-doubting, that’s when I really drop the ball. And if I get kicked off for doing something that wasn’t true to myself then I’d be even more disappointed – with myself, more than anything. So I just stay … I stay with myself.

What about the gown that you decided not to show? Can you tell us about that?


That was actually the last look I made just prior to going to the runway and it was a pretty dress but, I mean, it was a gown-gown, you know? It would have been considered something for the red carpet and I’m not really that person. I really wanted to stay true to who I am as a person, and that’s what the deciding factor was. I don’t know … I can’t turn back time, I can’t put that gown back into the mix to see how it would get voted on, you know? It is what it is.

We loved the first look, the blouse and the shorts, and we loved that color-blocked tunic dress. Both of those looks looked very wearable to us, so we don’t really get why the judges were criticizing you on your wearability factor.


Right. I didn’t understand that as well and I think if you look at my collection and break it down piece by piece, you can really incorporate a lot of it into your wardrobe. I mean, there were tops that you could wear with jeans; skirts that you could wear with, you know, like a black turtleneck. There’s the tunic, which you could wear with a pair of leggings, or the same tunic you can dress up with a pair of heels and wear it out to dinner or a cocktail party; there’s so many options. So, I don’t understand what happened there, I really don’t.

The judges claimed that you’re not what’s happening right now and we strongly disagreed with that on the blog, citing a bunch of looks from the Spring collections that were using a lot of the same elements that you used. How do you feel about what the judges said?


I really don’t know what happened. I think they were – I don’t know, maybe they were just splitting hairs. They had to go with something and unfortunately, they made the decision for Gretchen to win. And I’m happy for her.

Are you really?


I am happy that Gretchen won. I would have loved to win, but it’s not just about making money for me. I’ll still continue to be creative and still be able to think up new ideas and, you know, bring joy to people through my passion and live that life that I dream of. It’s just that I’m not gonna have the management and I’m not gonna have the seed money or whatever. I’ll just have to work a little harder and in the end that’s just gonna make my collections stronger and make me stronger.

What happened with your models not showing up?


Oh man, I don’t know. I don’t know if they were trying to give me a heart attack or what. They just didn’t show up and they had alternates come in. I mean, we had like a four-hour model casting; Michael C, Andy, Gretchen and I, and it was intense. I picked girls that I was really happy with. They were not your normal girls but they were cute. But it was really scary when some of them didn’t show up. As Tim Gunn would say, it was a real “make it work” moment. This was my final chance to take the whole enchilada.

The line
up was wrong too, right?

Yes, the lineup was crazy. I gave them the lineup of the order that I wanted them to walk, and I gave them the pictures, and then also the three girls who didn’t show up and there were new names coming on to the list and it was just a real mess.

Some of our readers noticed that the girl wearing the turquoise top, sometimes she’s shown walking down the runway wearing a necklac
e and sometimes she isn’t. Do you know what happened there?

Really? Well.

You didn’t see that?

Oh, you know what? There’s this thing they do where it’s like a first run or a practice run and they do the taping. And for the taping, she wore the necklace, and I thought – I loved that necklace and it really represented me. I think it’s fun and it really complements my vision of found objects, like Aztec wood and beads, so I just threw it on her. I actually didn’t know that. Thank you for pointing that out.

Tell us about your inspiration for the collection.

I really didn’t look for inspiration any further than opening up my front door. I grew up in a neighborhood in Denver with a heavy Mexican population. My family has been in the area for generation after generation. I live a block away from the church, Our Lady of Guadalupe, that I was baptized in; the one that I had my First Communion in; the one that everyone in my family gets married in. So I really wanted to honor my family, my Mexican heritage, and my roots, and the Catholic religion.

Your relationship with Michael C., it changed over the course of the show and it looks like you’re very good friends. How did that come about?

The thing about it is when I got the opportunity to work with Michael Costello I found out that he’s not only a great artist and take pride in his work and does it effortlessly, he’s an amazing guy and he’s willing to learn and open himself up to criticism. And it just proved so much more about his character. I admire that about him. I was originally really playing the game and listening to the hearsay of the other designers but in the end I couldn’t not be friends with him. He’s a really great guy and a really talented guy.

Do you think things were accurate with the way people were depicted on the show?

I think that everyone was very true to character. I think the editing could have been a little more, you know, a little wacky to make people stronger characters. But there were 15 designer and everyone does have a very strong personality. I think everybody was very true to their character and it all came across on television. I spent six weeks with these people and even with the last 13 weeks I got to know them even more.

Is it true you’re going to have a TV show with Michael Costello?

I actually found out about that on Facebook the other day and it’s a rumor. I don’t know anything about it. I mean, it would be really fun it it was true.

When we first saw the promo pics of you we loved you for your personal style, but you said when people first meet you they think you’re strange. Is that true?

I live in Denver, Colorado. I’m kind of my own character. In the gay community here, I don’t want to say this in a negative way, it seems like everyone is cut from the same – it’s so cookie cutter. So whenever I show up, people don’t really respond to what I’m … doing. My whole experience here has made me very insecure, going on the show, about being who I am. So, yeah. People seem to think I’m strange but when you get to know me, I’m very approachable and I’m honest. I don’t have anything to hide and I’m an open book.

What has the response been to revealing your HIV status?

It has been amazing. I think me revealing myself as HIV positive is about more than just me. I think it’s about everybody living with a secret or with something they don’t want to express. I think it’s a message that people can relate to.

We loved your finale show outfit. Why did you pick a suit and tie?

You know, that’s just kind of how I do things. It’s whatever I feel like when I get up. Whatever I put on, I put on. It’s not really thought up.

Did you enjoy the Project Runway experience?

Yeah, I enjoyed it. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. Coming off the show, I know who I am and it’s made me stronger. I think I’ve given some people the hope and the strength to move forward and tackle their dreams. The whole experience has paid me back in a million ways.

So what’s next for Mondo?

I think the thing that’s next for me is, I’m planning on moving to L.A. soon. I mean, tomorrow’s another day, someone might call me up and make an offer. You never know what’s going to happen. But you know? The thing about it is, I know that I’m going to continue to eat, sleep, breathe creativity and continue to design.

Thank you, Mondo.

Thank you, guys.

[Photo Credit: Barbara Nitke, myLifetime.com]

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Project Runway: Congratulations!

Who knew she'd turn out to be the sane one?


Look, don't start with us. We're not feeling the exclamatory title of this post any more than most of you do, but if we gave any indication of our disappointment in the title the "DON'T SPOIL IT BECAUSE I HAVEN'T WATCHED IT YET" crowd would have our heads. Suffice it to say our first impulse was to just title the post "Oh, fuck you."


But to whom would we address that? Some people are going to read this as us "defending" the show, but in all honesty, our takeaway is that the outcome of last night's finale had nothing to do with Bunim/Murray or Lifetime. It all came down to Nina and Michael. Say what you will about the ways the show has declined since it left Bravo, we wouldn't disagree with you, but if the producers really wanted to exert control over the outcome, we'd all be congratulating Mondo this morning. Any television producer with an ounce of common sense could see which of the designers would be the most embraced by the public. Gretchen made for great television (at least as far as a producer would define it), but she doesn't inspire that "rooting for the plucky hero" feeling that makes for reality television gold. We can see the idea floating around already that Lifetime or B/M might not have wanted an HIV positive gay man promoted too heavily on the network but to that we say hogwash. Lifetime has been promoting Mondo all season long, especially in light of his HIV confession. Not to make light or diminish what he's gone through, but his struggles fit in quite well with the Lifetime brand. "Overcoming the odds" is a particularly strong theme in their programming.

No, this was about Nina and Michael and in many ways that judging session was representative of an ongoing conversation in the fashion industry in light of the collapse of the economy. Namely, should the industry move away from a focus on theatrical high-priced luxury goods and fantasy clothes and should it embrace a more downscale, less complicated point of view? It's a discussion worth having and there are points to be made in favor of each side, but the bottom line is, this is a design competition and something of a game show. There's a reason why American Idol winners tend to be loud-mouthed wailers with ceiling-crumbling vocal styles. Quiet, thoughtful singers with discipline and control simply aren't what anyone's looking for in that venue. And while it pains us to compare the two shows, Project Runway has similarly always awarded the main prize to the designer or collection most likely to generate press and excitement.

This is what was so appalling about Nina and Michael's constant refrain of "ON TREND, DAMMIT!" Jay McCarroll wasn't on trend. Neither was Chloe Dao for that matter. Neither was Leanne Marshall or Irina Shabayeva or Seth Aaron. You could even argue that Christian Siriano wasn't (if anything, he was recycling trends with his finale collection). In all those instances, the prize was given to the designer whose collection made the strongest statement and was able to garner interest from the press and the public for their unique points of view. You could argue that Gretchen's collection was equally as strong, but THAT'S NOT THE ARGUMENT THE JUDGES MADE. Despite the fact that they literally could not describe Mondo's collection without using the kind of language reserved for winning designers ("He's incredibly creative and talented.") the ONLY arguments made in support of Gretchen by Nina and Michael were "It's on trend" and "I can sell these garments." Pardon us for being purists, but what appalling arguments to be making. This is what happens when a show goes from ELLE Magazine and the Banana Republic accessories wall to Marie Claire and the Piperlime accessories wall. Project Runway was never cutting edge even on its best days, but the dumbing down of the brand has been a distressing thing to witness.

And another thing: Nina and Michael have a far better understanding of the history of fashion than we do. The list of designers who happened to hit it big because their aesthetic tended to intersect with the whims of the industry at the time (i.e., it's on trend) who then crashed and burned because the industry moved on when they couldn't is a MILE LONG. It's one of the most common stories in fashion. We're not saying Gretchen's a flash in the pan. We're just saying that trendiness is a piss-poor criterion in a design competition.

And who knew that of all the people to understand that best and to speak for seemingly the majority of the viewers was none other than Heidi herself? We'll grant you, when Heidi Klum and Jessica Simpson (who wasn't at all bad as a judge) are the spokespersons for your argument, then you need to reconsider your argument. And we did, in all honesty. We listened intently to what Nina and Michael had to say and they made a lot of good points. For instance they were right to point out that Gretchen has an easily definable customer. You can "see the girl." They were also right to point out that Mondo's styling hurt him terribly. On the other hand, "We're not here to restyle his collection" was a particularly bullshitty bit of bitchery coming from the Duchess because he and Nina LAVISHED praise on Gretchen for styling her collection EXACTLY THE WAY THEY INSTRUCTED HER TO. In fact, this whole "He didn't listen to us/she listened to us" argument strikes us as awfully petulant.

And speaking of which, what crawled up their asses? That was, despite the jaw-dropping outcome, the best judging session we've ever seen. That wasn't playing to the cameras; they were genuinely in disagreement. Kors isn't such an actor that he can fake the red-faced, stuttering near-outrage he was feeling. "HELLO? READ A MAGAZINE!" was downright obnoxious. Like we said, it pained us that Heidi and JSimp were speaking on our behalf, but Nina and Michael were thisclose to being dismissive bitches. And what was with that weirdly defensive dig against Galliano that Kors made? "What I show I make! And women wear!"

As for the argument that Gretchen's collection was "What's happening NOW" and Mondo's wasn't ...


D&G, Christian Dior, Christian Dior, Cynthia Rowley

Gucci, Jil Sander, Jean Paul Gaultier, Diane von Furstenberg

Missoni, John Galliano, Lanvin, Marc Jacobs

Prabal Gurung, Prada, Prada, Peter Som

Rodarte, Rodarte, Versace, Prada

At the exact moment Nina and Michael were attempting to make that point, the biggest movers and shakers and trendmakers in the industry were preparing their Spring 2011 collections, with bold, saturated colors, theatrical styling and presentation, mixing of wildly different prints, whimsical elements and simple shapes and silhouettes. Now, does this mean Mondo automatically should have won? Of course not. And given time, we could put together a collage of concurrent looks from big name designers that owe more to Gretchen's aesthetic. Marc Jacobs' deeply literal '70s collection as well as Kors' own breezey, flowey collection in deep greens, golds and earth tones are much closer to Gretchen's work than Mondo's. Our point is, Nina and Michael, you didn't choose Gretchen's collection because it's what's happening now in fashion; you picked it because it's what's happening now in fashion that you tend to like. Which, fine. Judging is subjective, after all. But we think they spewed a ton of bullshit to justify that preference and they did Mondo a disservice by trying to paint his equally as on trend collection as somehow inferior. "Seth Aaron's collection was last year." Actually, no Nina. It was six months ago. And while we take your point that fashion moves forward, your rush to cast aside what you praised earlier the same year only serves to highlight the capriciousness of the fashion industry.

We think Gretchen is a talented designer and we think that there is a market and a customer for her work. We just don't think she'll be able to excite the public and interest the press the way that Mondo will. And we don't buy that she's got her finger on the pulse any more than he does. We will, of course, be examining every single one of the looks in the finale collections in great detail (including poor Andy, who got short shrift), as well as a look at the lamest fucking reunion in the show's history, so we'll have more to say about that coming up.

We hear a lot of people declaring that this is it and they'll never watch the show again. To be honest, it's something we've heard after every finale. That doesn't make it an idle threat, however. The show did well this season because it engaged the viewers with some very colorful personalities who provided some high drama. On that level, we enjoyed it immensely. But after all the onscreen drama and offscreen drama from the move to Lifetime and then the assembly line banging out of three seasons in short succession, we can't commit to saying we'll never watch again, but we sure are glad Project Runway is going away for a while. This is akin to doing a rain dance, but we implore the people involved with the creation of the show (and that includes the judges and Tim) to take a step back and remind themselves of what made the show great in the first place. We're actually looking forward to see Bravo's next attempt at The Fashion Show, which should tell you how tired we are of Project Runway.

As for Gretchen, in a way we feel sorry for the shitstorm that's going to come her way. We honestly wish her the best and congratulate her on her win. Like we said, she's definitely got the chops. We just didn't think she was the winner here.

[Screencaps: projectrungay.blogspot.com - Photo Credit: style.com, Barbara Nitke, myLifetime.com]

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Thursday, October 28, 2010

T LOunge

This is IT!

Reina Bruja in Madrid, Spain

Darlings, it's the close to the most dramatic season of Project Runway, possibly EVER. That calls for a drink or ten, in a cool, soothing, swanky kinda place, wouldn't you say?

Since tempers have been running high in the comments section all season, we'd just like to take this moment to remind our readers that in the end, the judges are the experts and we should just all quietly and meekly accept whatever they say.

FUCK THAT. GO MONDO! IF YOU DON'T WIN, WE'LL PERSONALLY BREAK THE INTERNET IN HALF!! EXCLAMATION POINT INFINITY.

But honestly, if some of you want to make the point that either Gretchen or Andy should be the winner, by all means, let's hear it in the comments section. Make your case. You can check out all the finalists' collections, as well as the decoys, here.

Don't forget that this episode also contains the reunion, in a format we kind of hate. But what are you gonna do? Will Ivy attempt to rip Michael's jugular out with her teeth? Will Gretchen say something obnoxious? Will any of them BESIDES the finalists plus Michael and Ivy get a word in edgewise? Stay tuned!


Season Finale Preview

It's come to the point where we don't believe one thing in the promos. We think the whole thing is computer generated.

[Video Credit: myLifetime.com - Photo Credit: reinabruja.com, Barbara Nitke/myLifetime.com]

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Yea or Nay: Turbans for Spring 2011

We had faces then.


Salma Hayek, Kourtney Kardashian

While we wouldn't dream of bestowing upon Kourtney Kardashian the title of "trendsetter," it's kind of hard to deny after looking at the Spring '11 collections that the turban is definitely a styling item of interest. Check it:

Andrew Gn Spring 2011 Collection


Giorgio Armani Spring 2011 Collection


Issa Spring 2011 Collection


Jason Wu Spring 2011 Collection

We would love to see some young starlet take the intitiative and get her Norma Desmond on by wearing one of these out on the RC. Granted, the more conventional-looking turbans do tend to have a "Lifetime Achievement Award" old, old, old Hollywood stench to them (e.g., Jason Wu and Andrew Gn). They're perhaps a bit too literal for even the hottest trendsetter or most talented stylist to make look fresh. On the other hand, we love the more Afro-Caribbean-inspired ones, like in the Issa show and even a little in the Armani show. Come on, little fashionistas. We just know one of you can bring these back in a big way without drawing comparisons to Carmen Miranda. We give a wholehearted YEA to the idea. What say the commentariat?

[Photo Credit: getty, style.com]

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T Lo HIGHLY Recommends "The Fashion File"



Blogging has its privileges, darlings. There we were, surfing on the twitter, as the kids call it, when Mad Men costume designer Janie Bryant sent us a message asking if we were going to be in town ("town," being New York) for her launch party of her new book, "The Fashion File." We pretended like we had to check our schedules and replied with a yes and probably three or four too many exclamation points. We're not sure. It's all a blur.

The party was fun. The space was gorgeous, the cocktails were huge and free-flowing and the nibblies were nibbly. All the waitresses were model-skinny in matching sequined dresses. We had exactly 1 minute to chat with Janie because she was the Girl of the Hour, after all. And when there are a hundred skinny girls in a line behind you wearing their best dresses, tottering on 5-inch heels, waiting for their chance to talk to their idol, and pissed off because they have to keep saying no to the hors d'oeuvre trays (and because they were hoping Jon Hamm would show up), well, let's just say you get your "Congratulations" and "It's so nice to finally meet you" out PFQ, kittens.

After that, it was a quick stop at Laura Bennett's place to pick up our laptops (because we were blogging while in transit yesterday) and it was she who noticed from the other side of her kitchen counter and looking at the book upside-down that the gorgeous illustrations were all by her S3 Project Runway cast mate Robert Best. The book is loaded with his work, making it glamorous in a fun, old school kind of way. Anyway, we hopped on a late night Amtrak and fought over our copy of the book the whole way.

We have to say, we've seen a lot of these style guide books and "The Fashion File" is, by far, the best, most comprehensive one we've ever seen. It's really more of a textbook. You only need to commit this one book to memory and you'll always be able to dress yourself to the best effect. Seriously. Janie's concerned less with trends or with imposing completely arbitrary rules, like "All women should have a trench coat," and more concerned with teaching you about the history of fashion and how you can draw on it; how to choose and wear each kind of accessory, the precise fool-proof items for each body type (Delicious Apple, Succulent Pear, Slim Ruler and Curvy Hourglass), down to specific necklines and your ideal bathing suit, how to create the perfect smokey eye in 4 steps, "Three bras every woman should own" and "The principles of highly effective purses." Honestly, just by giving it a quick read we could tell that this was it. It really is all you need in one book. You can see preview pages from the book here.

Even better, if you're a Mad Men fan (and in particular, a Mad Style reader) she doesn't shy away from using the show that made her famous to make her point. The forward is by January Jones and there are interviews with Elisabeth Moss and Christina Hendricks, as well as a TON of costume photos from the show. Even better, she uses the costumes of the show throughout the book to make certain points about how to dress yourself. Our favorite part was the section on "How Color Makes a Character" because we felt like we aced a test when we read it. "Pale blues, winter whites, camels, grays, and shades of violet epitomize Betty's glacial personality." "Because I envision her as a young, city version of Betty, Pete's wife wears cool sixties prints like paisleys and geometrics."

And speaking of tests, it's pop quiz time, darlings. You see, we happen to have an extra copy of "The Fashion File" autographed by Janie herself and we're giving it away to one lucky (and attentive) minion. We're going to give you a series of questions, the answers to which can be found sprinkled throughout our Mad Style series. There are multiple answers to each question and multiple ways to get it correct. We want you to post your answers in the comments section along with an email address. We'll take the first ten correct responses, put them in a hat, and pick out the winner. BUT - and we can't stress this enough - you should take your time before answering. Do a little research.

Here are the GROUND RULES:
You may only use ONE example from season 4 in any response.

For the purposes of this contest, the MAIN CHARACTERS are Don, Betty, Peggy, Joan, Pete, and Roger.


With each answer, you must give DIFFERENT character examples. You can't answer "Betty, Betty, and Betty!"


You
may only answer once and you don't get do-overs. No "In my response from yesterday, for answer 3, what I MEANT to say..."

Are we ready? Then pick up your pencils and begin:

1)Give three different examples of a mother and daughter dressed alike in a scene. Each example must be of a different mother/daughter pairing.

2) Give three different examples where a character is dressed in a scene to promote the idea that he or she is an outsider and doesn't belong there. It must be three different characters and NONE of them can be a MAIN character.

3) Give three different examples where a character is dressed in a scene to promote the idea that he or she is tied to their surroundings. You may use only one MAIN character.

4)Give three different examples of a husband and wife dressing in outfits that match.

5)Describe a consistent costuming element for each of the following characters that defines their look: Don Draper, Pete Campbell, Roger Sterling, Ken Cosgrove, Sal Romano, Harry Crane. In each instance, there is something about their costumes that is purely them. Find it and describe it.

Good luck!

Oh, and in other Mad Men book news, Roger Sterling's "Sterling's Gold" is being released as an honest-to-scotch real book. There's a review copy heading our way as we speak and when we get it, we'll let you know how it is.


[Photo Credit: hachettebookgroup.com, amctv.com]

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PR: Mondology

Hit it, you little imp!


Gosh, it's a shame he's so lacking in the point of view department, right?

Clearly, of the three finalists, Mondo's competition output looks the most like a collection. That's not necessarily the be-all and end-all as far as the judges are concerned, but it does bode well for him. They value consistency because it demonstrates not just a point of view but the discipline to express it over time. In terms of picking out themes or motifs, we tried but we couldn't find any.

Oh, alright. Mondo loves prints, but he especially loves houndstooth and other graphic black and white patterns. He loves to combine prints in ways that are unexpected. What's a little surprising looking at all his pieces is that design-wise, his looks are fairly standard. The only consistent design element he utilizes is the (sometimes extreme) high waist. Aside from that, there's no real experimentation with form or proportions. Distressingly, these are all fairly standard dresses and separates (admittedly, with some flair to them). It's possible we've been a little dazzled by the fabulous prints and fun styling, because it's only hitting us now that he hasn't really done anything all that interesting or unusual in terms of construction or design.

On the other hand, of the three finalists, he has the greatest sense of style and don't think that's not significant. He can put together a look in an exciting and eye-catching way and that can take him far in this world. He has a tendency to get a little campy and over-the-top in his styling however, and the judges, especially Nina and Michael, don't like that sort of thing.

Bottom line is, WE think he's a shoo-in, but there are some weaknesses there and they're the kind that the judges can get awfully pissy about. They don't like a lot of flash if they don't perceive something of substance underneath it.




[Collage Credit: projectrungay.blogspot.com - Video Credit: myLifetime.com - Photo Credit: Barbara Nitke/myLifetime.com]

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Thursday, October 14, 2010

Miley Cyrus Beautiful Pictures



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Disclaimer:All pictures, photographs posted in this blog http://boldandbeautifulcelebrities.blogspot.com have been collected from various internet sites & their copy right lies with the original owner.